Website: http://www.shoal.net.au/~mwoa/index.html Email: mwoa@shoal.net.au

14th November, 2000

The Head of the Commission

Father Kevin Matthews

The Catholic Parish of Cleve,

P.O. Box 82,

CLEVE 4540

SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Dear Father and members of the Commission appointed by the Most Rev. Philip Wilson,

On the 21st October, 2000, I was called in by the Commission, headed by yourself, to the Parish of Nowra, to answer some sixty-three questions. These questions were what is called in civil circles, "stacked". I had to answer them simply as I was asked without having been permitted to know what the questions were in advance.

The Advocate was unprepared; he did not know the questions beforehand, either, nor did he advise me as to the proceedings, leaving me totally unprepared, knowing only when the Hearing was to take place.

So for me to sign the papers on the accuracy of my interview, under oath - I will do so, but under great protest, and only with this written affidavit of my full answers to the sixty-three questions, which will become my official statements of fact and truth to the best of my ability, in conscience before God - so help me God!

1. Would you agree that in studying your 2 published books, the Constitutions of the Order of St. Charbel and the St. Charbel House of Prayer Books and your published apparitions it is possible for our Commission to gain an accurate picture of your life and your works?

Original Answer:

To a degree, I can say so, yes.

Answer: The various books in question do reflect my life and work, but only in so far as the written word can express sufficiently for anyone to understand a clearer picture of the thirty years of history surrounding my life since I was twenty years of age. You would need the testimony of about five-hundred to one-thousand witnesses; one's span of life cannot be placed on paper alone, for many lives have been affected in turn by my life. Also, the fruit of my life must be expressed through the two-thousand, or so, written testimonials given to the Commission two years ago.

2. You continuously claim fidelity to the Holy Father and yet many of the claims you make and practices you undertake are contrary both to Church Teaching and the Canon Law of the Church. Do you see the anomaly of your position?

I can see the anomaly but I don't agree with your statement.

Answer: Your statement presupposes that I am in error. You state that many of my claims are contrary both to Church Teaching and the Canon Law, yet you did not specify which claims are in error. My teachings are in accordance with the Church, and have always been. My fidelity to the Pope - and to the Hierarchy who are in union with him - has always remained.

3. So Father Broussard is suspended, how can you work outside the structure of the Church? And claim to be Catholic?

Quite easily, because there are certain Canon Laws that govern also Father Broussard's situation, which has been presented to the Catholic Church, many times, but has not been dealt with yet, and therefore it is like a person that would be a Doctor who would be suspended for various reasons but he still remains a Doctor. So does Father, he remains a Priest.

Answer: First, you have not studied Father Broussard's case. Yes, he was suspended, however, if you had studied his case under Canon 1323 & 1324, you would note that a suspension of the Bishop becomes null and void. Thus, the Bishop's statement has no foundation until Father Broussard's case has been dealt with in the proper forum of an Appeal. Therefore, while the judgement of the Bishop of Texas is in contention, Father Broussard remains an activated Priest. His faculties remain intact. Therefore, all Baptisms, Confessions, Marriages and normal clerical duties remain valid. So to say I work outside the Church, is totally incorrect.

4. I have heard that there is to be or already has been an ordination to Priesthood of one of your members this year. Is this true?

No; there was to be an Ordination but this man has died this week, obviously he is not a Priest - but that was in the plan yes.

Answer: Your statement implied a third party was involved, therefore it is based on suspicion and hearsay. A Legal Court Hearing or statement of question coming from yourself, being a Canonist, cannot ask such a question unless it is fact - then it must be presented as a statement of fact, not hearsay.

5. The Church sees the Bishop as the Vicar of Christ in his Diocese. Bishop Murray, Bishop Wilson, Archbishop Little and Archbishop Pell have already condemned you and your work. How can you claim loyalty to the Church if you do not react or heed their warnings and try to work with them?

First of all I am only obliged to follow according to the jurisdiction of the Church in my Diocese. As for Archbishop Pell and the other members of the Hierarchy, they only follow protocol according to their jurisdiction, and the Church was required from the very beginning, in 1984, to open an ecclesiastical investigation. This investigation was prompted by me not by the Church, therefore, what you are saying is already an error.

Answer: First, the Church does not see a Bishop or Archbishop as the Vicar of Christ in his Diocese. Show me in the writings of the Church's Teaching where it says this! All Bishops, though successors and depositories of the Apostles, are not Vicars. There is only one 'Shepherd' designated as Vicar, and that is the Bishop of Rome who is currently Pope John Paul II.

6. In your first book "The Little Pebble: The Last Pope" (p.17), you condemn a Seer called Clemente for being a self-proclaimed Pope. You are making a similar claim. Do you not see the need for equal condemnation by the Church in your own claims to be the future Pope?

No, Clemente declared himself Pope and made himself Pope, I did not declare myself Pope in the revelations that are given in the various Messages, received not only by myself but also some four hundred other Mystics throughout the Church; it is revealed that I will be the Pope - and not the next one but the last one. So therefore there is a great difference between what Clemente did and what I did.

Answer: You are making rash judgements by using excerpts from my book and referring to my claim as becoming a self-proclaimed Pope, similar to Clemente.

To state that I should be condemned by the Church for making the same claim as Clemente suggests you are pre-supposing that I am in error. My claim and that of Clemente are entirely different. Clemente formed his own Church, calling it the Palmarian Catholic Church. It is heretical, while my claim is lawful and Prophetic. So how can you condemn me on a prophecy which has not as yet taken place? A Seer is not condemned on a prophetic announcement, but rather on his teachings if they do not comply with Church Teachings. Also he is judged on his fruit: is it from God, or from elsewhere! You have already pre-supposed that I am in error, thus I need to be condemned.

7. Are you aware of the processes for the election of the Pope that would completely exclude a person like yourself?

Yes, I am fully aware of it.

Answer: To say that the election of the Pope would exclude myself, is wrong, and a presumptuous statement! Why would it exclude myself? What Law and what Teachings state this? Under current Law, which has stood since the beginning, any man whether married or single can become Pope, if elected according to the Law. You have made a judgement on me without a basis of fact.

8. The constant reference in your constitutions to scripture, canon law, and church documents appears to be a deliberate misuse of Church teaching to inveigle the unwary to consider the group a Catholic one. Your Constitutions do not claim to be Catholic in its title, but from the Forward onwards, it assumes for itself, incorrectly, a life within the Catholic Church. Frequent references to the Vicar of Christ and to the Magisterium could also lead innocent people to believe the group has respect for Church authority. Nothing could be further from the facts. The Vicar of Christ in the local diocese is the Bishop of Wollongong. Why do you ignore his authority completely?

I have not ignored his authority in any particular way, he has ignored his responsibility as a shepherd to guide his sheep. It is for this reason we have a second Commission because in the beginning we had no Commission and otherwise that in itself proves that the decision of Bishop William Murray was incorrect, otherwise a second Commission would not have been instigated.

To say that I am constantly against Church teaching is not correct either.

Answer: Your statement infers that I am a charlatan, trying to trick the unwary in the Order by asking them to hand over their money for my personal gain. This is a very serious accusation of calumnious nature. Your statement is full of anomalies and judgements against my integrity and exemplary life. You have assumed much without fact or evidence. You have insulted the thousands of souls who have given their all to live holy and good lives for the Catholic Church. Your statements are also serious accusations against justice and truth.

9. The canonical protection for religious who cede property only and do not renounce it are all omitted in your "constitutions". The intention to defraud people of their money and property becomes clear in the last paragraph of General Introduction, where it emerges that unless a person making vows for one year only renounces all possessions, they cannot remain in the group. There is constant reference to the members' need to detach themselves from all possessions. This reiteration leads to the uneasy suspicion that the purpose of the "Order" is to defraud people of their money and goods for the benefit of William Kamm. What do you say about this?

I deny that totally.

Answer: You have made a judgement upon me, accusing me of fraudulently taking money and property from people. This is a very serious charge - with many others - and I could take the Church to Civil Court, because it charges me - in a criminal manner - of fraud. Under Church Teaching and the Gospel, it is very clear for one to proceed along the line of taking a vow in the state required in a Religious Order. One must detach oneself from material possessions. This does not mean divest oneself from them, for in the case of Third Branch members, many of their needs seem to be greater than the average single person. Their possessions remain theirs, but their detachment also remains. The Order - not I - becomes the custodian of all goods, while living the life.

10. In your Television interview some years ago you stated that you were worth some $4,000,000. Was this true?

Yes in reference to when they say $4,000,000 reference to me that is not correct, in reference to the Order of St Charbel that is correct.

Answer: Your question is misleading. You also use the Media as factual evidence, which in itself is not evidence for those who know how the Media presents cases, it is usually about 60% accurate - the rest is out of order. This cannot be used as evidence in a Church Court Case. The interview of Current Affairs was cut in several places where it alluded to the fact that I had accumulated $4,000,000 worth of assets. Whereas if you look at the Order's assets across the world, they would be valued at $4,000,000, however, it must also be remembered that these assets are held by individual families who are members of the Order, but did not assign these assets to the Order.

11. What is your current financial situation?

I would say it would be about the same.

Answer As stated in my previous answer: the assets are divided into many areas - though under the spiritual aspect they all belong to the Order. I myself have assets included in this figure you mentioned to me.

12. In the General Introduction, Bullet One requires of those in minor vows "an unequivocal renunciation of all material wealth". As minor vows are "intended primarily for married people with family responsibilities" and are "for one year only", this appears contrary to the natural law of justice. Can you see that you are not following the Church's law and putting the rights of members at risk?

No.

Answer: I will elaborate on my answer which was "No". First, the Minor Vow does require the renunciation of all material goods. However, it further goes on to say that all goods would be returned should one desire to leave. Therefore, it does not put at risk any members, and definitely is not contrary to Church Law or natural justice. In the Constitution it also says the Order will return the goods and help them to be re-established in the world.

13. The Constitutions contain no regulations for dismissal or severance from the group. Can you see that this leaves the members open to abuse of their rights?

No.

Answer: I do not agree with your statement, for the Constitutions have every right to recourse, as clearly stated.

14. Do you appreciate that constitutions must be approved by legitimate ecclesiastical authority for safe guarding the rights of members?

Yes, yes.

Answer: It is self-explanatory, and it is for this very reason the Rule and Constitutions of the Order was given to Rome - the Sacred Congregation for Religious, and various other bodies - for the Order needed direction and guidance to make sure all was in accordance with the Church's guidelines.

15. But your constitutions are not approved?

It is not approved in the sense that the Church has not accepted it yet but it has been offered to the Church for approval, first of all through Rome, through Monsignor Galante who is now an Archbishop, back in 1987 and from there onwards it has been presented to Rome some three times. As I have already mentioned before I have also seen the Holy Father on seven occasions and I have also received quite substantial support from the Ecclesiastical body in reference to their acknowledgment of the Order but still have to go through my local Bishop.

Answer: To say the Constitution is not approved is a ridiculous statement! If it were approved would I be on trial now, and would I seek local and international approval? However, parts of the Order have received recognition from various Cardinals and Bishops, of which I have informed the Bishop of Wollongong and yourselves. The Order itself was also approved in May, 1999, by the Most Rev Monsignor Bishop Bartholomew Schneider, which I also reported in the information. Of course, this Bishop has been placed in question by the "Decree" of Bishop Wilson, but recently it has been confirmed that Bishop Schneider has an appointment with the Holy See regarding regularisation. But as clearly stated in Canon Law, the Order does not require approval from the Local Ordinary, but the Local Ordinary can, and must, assist the new Orders to be accepted in the Church. However, I look towards the local Bishop for his support, and eventual approval.

16. The local Bishop is the only authority that can approve your group as an association of Christ's faithful and then there are steps to have them approved as an institute of diocesan rite and finally an institute of pontifical rite unless this first step has taken place you recognise that nothing is recognised? No other recognition outside the local Bishop has any value?

I don't agree with that Father.

Answer: I have expressed to you on several occasions that this is not correct, for we are not an Association, but a New Form of Consecrated Life, due to the nature of the Order. Under Canon Law, and Pope John Paul II's instructions on "Vita Consecrata" of 1996, it is very clear that all new forms of Consecrated Life are to be referred to Rome, only, for approval, and a new Congregation for this has been established by His Holiness, Pope John Paul II.

17. That is Church law, so if you are claiming to be part of the Catholic Church you need to follow Church law for the safe guarding of the rights of all the members.

I don't agree with that either and the reason why I don't agree with that is because you can solicit or be encouraged by other ecclesiastics from other dioceses in the world, if I desire to have this work approved by another diocese that is not against the Canon Laws.

Answer: You quote the Law of the Church, often, but you fail to realise that the same Law contradicts what you say - and you insinuate that I am not following Church Law.

18. If your home base is in that diocese?

Yes, but if I shift the home base to another diocese it can be approved by another Bishop which I have already proceeded to do, the Cardinal from Nigeria has already consented to the idea of the Order which I have already forwarded to you through e-mail and I have forwarded some nearly twenty documents of other ecclesiastics who have considered and are looking into the work of the Order and to say that the Church is not interested in what I am doing in its reference to its works is not correct.

Fr John Woods: Would you be holding that what Father Kevin said regarding the recognition by the Bishop is required and it would be your intention to seek that recognition and allow you an individual base to fulfil the requirement of Church law?

Because you see the thing is this that the purpose of me requesting the Bishop to have the investigation in the first place is to seek recognition not so much for myself personally but rather for the work that I have proceeded to do. Now, as this mission is already in some hundred and twenty countries right now, has quite a large following, there are many Bishops and well over a thousand priests involved in this work, so therefore that would indicate that something is coming from God. Now, what Bishop approves or accepts the work is only an additive to the work that you are doing which means that that Bishop would obviously contact my Bishop here to encourage the work and that has already occurred because the mission has already been approved in quite a lot of Dioceses and I have their letters and I have already forwarded those letters to Father Kevin.

But I still seek approval from my local diocese because I live here for a start.

Answer: It simply follows on from the previous question.

19. The Introduction to the Constitutions states that the general aim of the "Order is unification of Eastern and Western Catholic Rites. There appears to be no awareness of the high regard the Church has for the ancient traditions of both the Western and the Eastern Churches and the witness they give to the apostolic heritage of the Church universal. The Second Vatican Council Decree, Orientalium ecclesiarum, 1964, makes clear that rather than destroy Rites by one unification, the Church urges Eastern churches to maintain their Rites as part of the heritage of the whole Church of Christ. Your Ignorance on how the Church really works is published and damaging to the unity already existing between the Churches. Can you see that difficulty?

No, not at all because I have had a lot of dealings with the Eastern Rite Churches and I was privileged to meet the Cardinal of the Oriental sector in Rome some years ago who acknowledged the work that I did for the Eastern Rites and he himself and many others of the same Rites have indicated how there was quite a division amongst the East and the West in the Catholic Church in spite of the fact of all that has been written over many centuries but there is definitely a wedge between East and West and he was very encouraged by the work that I was doing, matter of fact they were inundated in Rome with all the work that I was doing for the Eastern Rite.

Fr John Woods: Could I clarify the statement the work you were doing - was that by way of your conversation, perhaps annotating reporting or was it by way of document?

Mostly through the prayer groups dedicated to one of the Eastern Rites' arms in St Charbel and we have some forty five thousand groups all over the Catholic world and part of that is also in the Eastern Rite Churches.

Fr John Woods: So would their support be more in the nature of support of the spirituality rather than the constitution aspiration?

Yes, it would be more of that line.

Answer: How can you claim that what I am doing is damaging the unification of Eastern and Western Church Rites when I have been upholding all Catholic rites by spreading devotion to an Eastern Catholic Saint in the predominantly Roman Catholic Organisation, which I represent. It is very clear to me you have no conception of what I do and how large our Organisation is.

20. In your Rule and Constitutions of the Order of Saint Charbel you claim to be closely linked with the work of Fr Yves Marie Blais of Quebec. Do you realize that he has been condemned by his own Bishop and by the Vatican?

Yes, Father.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

21. Is there still some connection?

Not at this stage.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

22. Do you realize that without Ecclesiastical approval you are putting the members of your group at risk of falling outside the approval and recognition of the Church and possibly setting up a schismatic Church?

Yes.

Answer: My answer to your questions was "Yes" - however, I wish to elaborate on this. It is for this reason I have requested the Church's Investigation, to safeguard our situation. However, as the process of the Investigation will take some time, and the decision of the Church will be positive, hence, no schism can occur. Should the Church decide against me - and this would need to come from His Holiness - then I will disband the Order.

23. Are you prepared to go ahead with that schism?

No, because I do not believe that schism will occur because I am still a Roman Catholic, I have always been Roman Catholic, and so have all the members and I believe that even with this investigation and investigations to come in the future that the Church will approve this work eventually.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

24. How does Our Lady communicate with you?

Well I see the Blessed Virgin Mary in vision, just like I see someone physically who actually appears in front of me, some six meters away usually and approximately about maybe four meters off the ground and all I can explain is that it is in a physical way I see her with my eyes.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

25. How do you know it is she?

First of all because of what She says and how She presents herself also the warmth and the light that I receive from the vision or what She says, her nodding to me, gives me much strength and peace and She does not only make the sign of the cross but She also gives me many indications through Her communications that it is Her.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

26. She seems to have complete authority about everything in much of what you say. Why is it that the Holy Trinity or even Our Lord tend to have so little to say on some of the big issues you speak of?

Well that is between God and the Virgin Mary, it has nothing to do with me personally, whatever they wish to say that is their business and whatever Jesus says so does the Virgin Mary and whatever the Virgin Mary says so does Jesus because They, are one in Their Hearts and purpose.

Answer: Your question is somewhat derogatory; did Jesus speak to Saint Bernadette? Did Jesus speak to the children of Fatima? Is not Mary the Mother of the Church? Whatever Mary says, Christ supports! Whatever Christ says, Mary supports! It is Mary's time now, as explicitly quoted by His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, and all previous Popes since Pius XII. So why wouldn't Mary speak on serious subjects?

27. Why do you think Mary contacts you in this way?

I believe for first of all for my own salvation and edification and sanctification of course but also to bring Her children closer to God and that is Her will.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

28. Why do you think you were chosen?

I don't think for any particular reason, the Blessed Virgin Mary has Her own choices and anyone that is chosen from history is God's choice.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

29. How do you know that you are not deluded especially when you speak of Our Lady bowing to you?

The reason why is because of all that I have just previously said because I know it is the Virgin Mary, I have certitude as all Mystics and Seers do otherwise I would not be able to preach what I am preaching and I believe the fruit that is all over the world is sufficient to prove that it is from God.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

30. How important are you then in the scheme of things?

Well in God's Plan as far as importance is concerned He has revealed that one day I will be the Vicar of Christ even though it looks totally impossible but God can do things that are impossible and that is what God has planned so obviously that is an important role, but for what I do right now is to try to build an Order for the Church and I believe it is succeeding and growing and developing and bringing many of God's children closer to him.

Answer: This was a leading question.

31. Would you say that you have been redeemed?

All souls have to work for redemption. I believe that I am saved provided that I love and serve God in the best way in my conscience before God and His Church but like all men we are all sinners therefore I can be tempted and I can fall away from Grace but at the same time I know that God Loves me and I am a sinner like any other soul.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

32. Do you ask forgiveness?

Yes, always.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

33. Would you say then that you are a saint?

I don't think I am a saint yet but I try very hard to be one.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

34. In God's Eyes where would you rank yourself?

In God's Eyes I would rank myself as a little soul that is seeking to love and serve Him.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

35. You would have to be higher than any Bishop, for example. I suppose you would be higher than a lot of the Saints, especially - those who defend what you are attacking?

In which way do you mean that Father?

Answer: This was a misleading question. You are saying that I am attacking what the Saints defended. I do not think so.

36. Well, the example of the Saints is total loyalty to what the Church is all about but you are doing your own thing?

I don't agree with that Father, if I were doing my own thing why would I ask for an ecclesiastical court to judge me. I believe I am doing God's Will and my fruit which God has given me is the sign that I am doing God's Will.

Fr John Woods: Would it be fair to say that the tenor of your answers points to that if not now then eventually this will come to pass?

Yes.

Fr John Woods: So would it also be fair to say that whatever the decision of this investigation in your mind by virtue of your graced position if I can put it that way there is almost as you would see it an inevitability that the new ecclesiastical process authorities will come to concur with what you have been given to believe?

Yes, I believe that.

Fr John Woods: So I go back, it is more not a matter of if but when?

That is correct.

Fr John Woods: I am just trying to put that by way of summary.

Answer: I answered this as required.

37. How does God reveal himself?

To me, well the way God reveals himself to me first of all has always been through the Gospel and through the Church because I have been an ardent lover of Christ and his Church, I have worked very hard for his Church even before all of this began I worked in the Diocese in Wollongong for over ten years in spreading the work of God with Bishop McCabe and Father Leo Stephens. Over the last twenty years God has revealed himself in his presence Of, I don't even know what the word is in English, but in his body presence, seeing Christ the same as I see the Virgin Mary. He has spoken to me himself as Jesus of course, even the Eternal Father. He has made his presence known to me, also in my heart and in my soul even through inner locutions, that is the way he has expressed himself to me.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

38. Have you seen the Father?

The Eternal Father, yes.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

39. In what appearance?

The same as the Eternal Son only not older but in white hair, rather than in goldish brown hair as Jesus, but I have seen the Eternal Father next to his son, I have seen the Holy Ghost in the form of the dove.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

40. Jesus has said no one has seen the Father?

I don't agree with that and neither do you Father, no one has seen God in his fullness but the Saints over the last two thousand years have seen the Eternal Father and have also been approved by the Catholic Church.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

41. How important are the scriptures?

They are important because in totality because they are the word of God, they are the word of God that brings us salvation, I have always loved the gospels and the whole scriptures old and new testament and they are of course the most important part of our faith apart from the sacraments of course.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

42. How important are Defined dogmas?

Original Answer:

I am in total belief of all dogmas otherwise I wouldn't be Roman Catholic, I profess my faith every day therefore the dogmas are very significant in my faith and doctrine of course.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

43. You claim a dispensation from Divine Law to be the father of many children with the Queens and Princesses. Have you exercised this new right and have you fathered children with other women apart from your wife?

Apart from my wife, yes

Answer: This question to me was very unclear as I was not sure whether you sere asking how many children I fathered, or how many women have I exercised the dispensation from the Divine Law. Which wife - Anne, my previous wife, or Bettina, my current wife?

I mystically and symbolically married Bettina in Church on the 19th September, 1991. To this day I have had five children to her - two physically and three mystically, which is also yet to be considered by Church authorities. It is these three I was referring to in your question - No. 44 - as my answer was three. Not three women. I currently have nine children, and only one wife - Bettina Kamm.

44. How many?

Three.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

45. On what grounds would your sexual relations with women not be judged sinful?

On the grounds of the suspension of the law in reference to how God has revealed his word to me, which I have written quite extensively about and also supported by St Thomas Aquinas and quite a few other Saints in case of a prophet if God commands him to do whatever you are supposed to do it is justifiable because God commanded it therefore I proceed according to his word.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

46. Do you feel you can change the Church's moral teaching, e.g. on sexual matters?

Not at all, not at all, it is also part of the moral teaching of the Church because it is written in the writings of the Doctors of the Church otherwise I would not have proceeded.

Answer: It is clear to me, Father Kevin and the Commission, you are not well informed about the Teachings of the Church regarding Moral Theology and Mystical Theology, according to Saint Thomas Aquinas and other Doctors of the Church. So why ask me this question?

47. What about your statement in '94 that there will be a new era?

Yes, I believe in that because as there has not been much revealed about the second coming of the Messiah only the fact that he will be coming but it also says there will be a time where there will be a new heaven and a new earth and the revelations that have been given not only by myself but also by the Saints and I can give you many books from the writings of the Church about a new era to come which will be sinless, it is in scripture.

Answer: Again it seems, dear learned men, that your concept on the Second Coming of Christ is rather very scrappy, to say the least.

48. How many others would enjoy this exemption?

None.

Answer: As for question 48: you go from one subject in Question 47 to the same subject of Question 46 - where is your objectiveness and coherence? This also applies to Question 49.

49. Only you?

That is correct, because I am the prophet.

Answer: See above!

50. Do you think it is strange that you would invoke the authority of the Blessed Virgin Mary in these matters?

No.

Answer: Why would it be strange to invoke the Blessed Virgin Mary? Is She not the Mother of the Church and our Mother? These revelations come from Her, not me! Your question suggests these revelations were a figment of my imagination. Had you studied all my works you would clearly see there is no imagination in all that God has revealed, for all these revelations were given to about one-hundred other Seers from 1990, and also verified by Church scholars - and more so, by Church Teaching.

51. When she is a virgin?

True, but no not at all because if the Virgin Mary is revealing that to me as it has been confirmed by countless other mystics who also are under ecclesiastical investigation, some have already the support of the Church, it would indicate that what was revealed is true but it is still up to the Church to make that decision, it is not up to me, I am only the one receiving the revelation.

Fr John Woods: You said you had received a dispensation from the Father regarding sex outside marriage. Are you clear as to the purpose you were given this dispensation?

Yes, very clear.

Fr John Woods: Perhaps you could share that with us?

Like a decision from God to say that I will be the Father of many nations in the future, not only as the Vicar of Christ but also as one who will lead all God's people - therefore in this case I would have more than one wife. This is not contrary to old teaching or even new, if God so commands it, but it has to do with the reformation of the Royal House of David, and I am aware that the Priests are called part of the Royal House as far as the Royal Priesthood. Of course we are talking about a Mystical life here, and it is in God's Plan to reform the Twelve Tribes of Israel, which were basically destroyed back in the Old Testament; but we are talking about an era that is yet to come - the golden era or the era where there will be no sin, no corruption - so therefore that is basically it.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

52. How would you and the Pope differ today in terms of authority?

If I were Pope you mean?

No, at this moment?

In which way Father do you mean?

Well if the Pope, the present Pope condemns you and your movement?

Yes, I will accept that, of course he is the Vicar of Christ.

Answer: Ambiguous question - had no meaning.

53. How important is the Pope in God's plan in the Church today?

Well, being the, not only being the head of the Church he is above all men on this earth because he represents Christ especially I am talking now in this era of time, the Holy Father is a living saint on earth, his role for the moment apart from the fact that he is the Vicar, he is also to lead God's children into the promised land as far as his role is concerned but we believe firmly that he has much yet to do even though he is old, that he has to still bring forth a new Dogma of Mediatrix of all grace and he still has to bring forth possibly another council and to lead God's Church in the right direction.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

54. How important do you see the Ecumenical councils?

Very important because they are all part of God's teaching and it has never been any different in the past though there is a lot of dispute between what the Vatican Council says and what is actually put into practice and that has been very well documented over the many decades but the Vatican Council are just as important as any other Council.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

55. How important is theological teaching and learning?

Theological teaching and learning based by the Church's teaching is important for the formation of souls and also the Church itself in as far as the priesthood is concerned.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

56. How important is the witness of saints and martyrs?

Very important because it is by their blood, by their witness that they go forth the truth concerning Christ and his teaching.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

57. How important are the visions of some holy people, e.g, St. Bernadette?

Well they are important in as much as they are relevant to not only the age of its time but to me in my own understanding of God's teaching is that whether you have visions or whether it is the Gospel which is also part of God's work, they all are relevant to each particular time in the centuries and these visions have importance in as much as to edify souls into believing and loving and serving God through His Gospel and his Church.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

58. Do you see the Church as having a right to determined whether these visions are genuine?

Yes, of course, it is its duty and its authority to do so.

Answer: This question is ridiculous. If I did not, would I ask the Church for an Investigation?

59. How do you fit into all this?

The same.

Answer: The question is irrelevant - it has no purpose or meaning.

60. What happens when you contradict any or all of these?

That is up to the Church to decide, if the Church decides right up to the last point which will be the Vicar of Christ that what I have taught in these last twenty years is an error I will accept that decision.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

61. Are you prepared to submit to the authority of the Diocesan Bishop in these matters?

Provided that they follow according to canon law which have not done so far which I have already presented to you right from the beginning otherwise this second Commission would never have existed.

Answer: This is self-explanatory!

62. Are you aware that failure to submit to the authority of the Diocesan Bishop may lead to a canonical trial of yourself before a Church Tribunal?

Yes.

Answer: It seems to mean that there are two trials ....

63. Would you prefer to change things before that happens or to submit to that?

No, I want to follow through with the Commission right to the very end.

Answer: As the previous answer... My understanding is that the current Commission was to determine whether my claims are true or false, yet you speak of a trial as if I were a guilty party. I am a Roman Catholic; I have been such since my birth; I have practised my faith, in full, since I was a young boy up to this day. Since 1968 I have had Mystical experiences. I have been a faithful and obedient son of the Church, which has been verified through countless people and Organisations. I have borne witness to Christ in all aspects.

Is not the Church authority required to look into all matters pertaining to our faith and its faithful, especially those more vulnerable, like myself, who are claiming to have visions and prophecies; to look more carefully to protect and help these souls? For once proven to be true, are they not a source of Grace for the whole Church, even the world - as has been the case with countless Saints and Holy Shrines now flourishing in the Church?

They are the questions I have for you, whether you want to make a statement of any sort is up to you?

Original Answer:

I do Father.

Going back to the very beginning before the Commission even began in 1985 when I went to Bishop William Murray and that was only a half an hour that I was with him when I presented the messages to him, the decision was already made on December 2, with a pastoral letter to the Diocese to say that there was an ecclesiastical court, an ecclesiastical decision was made, I disputed that because there was nothing made, I only saw the Bishop for half an hour and that was it and three messages were studied about what I had received and from that a decision was made. And it was from then 1985 until 1998 that I had appealed to the Bishop over and over again for an ecclesiastical Commission. Since that time as you are aware Father that the Bishop of Wollongong tried to close the Order down, now that was in the midstream of an investigation which started in September 98.

Now, according to Canon Law that is not possible because first of all I had not even been called to the Commission to give my evidence so therefore how can you close something down when you haven't even presented the evidence. Second of all I appealed to Rome, which is my right, under the canon law, and that was ignored. This Commission even today is illegal because the fact that once I appeal to Rome or to the Holy Father it is required by Canon Law and by my Bishop to forward that to Rome, it was not forwarded though I forwarded it to Rome via other means which I have to my disposal and still nothing was acted upon it so therefore how can the Commission continue and it has been ignored ever since.

And third of all, it is the duty of my Bishop to defend me until proven guilty. The fact is that when I first asked my Bishop here in Wollongong, Bishop Wilson, to open the investigation I appealed to him as a soul seeking advice, seeking help from the Diocese and I have been ignored already for some nearly fifteen years and I have appealed constantly over and over again for that help.

Now, I had to use the civil law nearly to produce that help and it is only finally when I appealed to Bishop Wilson did he concede that I had a right to be heard.

Now, since that time I have also been attacked very heavily by the media as I always have been over many, many years and even Bishop Wilson issued the Decree against me and the press had already received all the information even before I even seen, I have never seen Bishop Wilson.

Therefore it is already illegal to proceed in a Commission like this when I made an appeal. I have been totally ignored each time, I have not even received any advice, any letters to say that that is what they are doing, the Bishop is supposed to notify me within fourteen days and then thirty days that he has already sent the appeal to Rome, nothing has happened.

And Father Woods that is basically the situation. It is always from my instigation, not from the Church's instigation, this investigation never would occur in 1998 had I not proceeded with two lawyers and barristers and also a Judge of the High Court here in New South Wales to get this going and I also appealed to Cardinal Clancy and even to Rome, to be able to have this meeting. Do you understand?

Fr John Woods: Just to clarify, it would seem that on the one hand your saying the matter has at your instigation gone to Rome therefore this thing is on hold subject to Rome's judication and yet on the other hand you seem to be pushing for a decision locally - could we just clarify - is your desire that the matter be completely referred to Rome or that the due process, to use an expression, at the local level which this process is, that it would continue to a result?

Well, to clarify it Father, yes, I am looking now at the law, right, now the law states very clearly, now first of all Bishop Wilson he already put a null and void into the decision of the Commission before the Commission even sat. Matter of fact the members of the Commission weren't even chosen by that time and that was already one year after the date of the opening of the Commission and Bishop Wilson already made a decision before the Commission was even called together, the decision was to close me down. So, that is already against the canon law because I haven't even been heard yet nor have I presented the case yet, so what is the point of a Commission if I am already totally white washed out of the picture.

So therefore I looked at the canon law and I said okay well then I have the right of appeal if the Commission isn't going to do its work well what's the point.

Fr John Woods: Your right of appeal as you would see it to the decision of Bishop Wilson to in your understanding unilaterally condemn you?

Well he has already done so by the very fact that he has already said from this moment on the Order is closed bang, bang, bang, and I haven't even come to the Commission yet. I haven't sat there yet.

Fr John Woods: But subsequently as you said under pressures from yourself, the civil pressure as you have explained it.

There was a year before that, because you see Father with due respect, sorry for taking your time, but even for you Father as an Advocate I look at this as quite unusual because an advocate of my defence should first of all know who I am, what I am doing, how I am doing things before he can be an Advocate.

Fr John Woods: I would dispute or maybe we could discuss further the role of the Advocate but maybe for the sake of the point of discussion now my line of questioning for your sake as an advocate and for the sake of the discussion this morning - are you recognising the canonical status of the inquiry presently being held?

Not entirely, I tell you why, because first of all out of respect for all concerned I wanted to explain, I wanted to answer the questions so you are fully aware of my thoughts and that will still go on record anyway but the point is this that if some, going back early this year, where Bishop Wilson already put me in null and void which is against the Commission's invoking because otherwise why invoke a Commission when the Commission hasn't even been put together yet and you already have made a decision, so therefore it leaves me no alternative to say okay Bishop Wilson if you have already made the decision before the Commission even sits together you give you no choice, I have to appeal to protect my own rights as a Catholic and that is what I have done.

Now, but since that time I have heard nothing, first of all I have heard nothing from Rome, I have heard nothing from my Diocesan Bishop, all he said is from Father Kevin is the Commission is continuing, this is what we are going to do but the Commission had not even been elected, do you understand. So, where does my appeal then come in, that means that the Commission is already null and void because my appeal should be already in Rome according to the law, Bishop Wilson should have already advised me that the appeal has already gone to Rome, do you understand what I am saying, so therefore according to canon law if we are going according to the law this Commission is null and void right from the start.

Fr John Woods: In fairness to you now I can hear what you are saying, I wouldn't presume that your understanding is canonically correct though I respect your interpretation of it, and obviously the very process will require a definitive ruling in due course with respect to your status of Bishop Wilson's decision, appeal and this process so maybe the point I think that is being made is that the canonical status of what we are doing you would be questioning if I could put it that way?

Well not in its entirety because (in the chronology, the way things have sequentially developed) that is correct. In that way I would say that this is well if you call it illegal it is illegal in the sense of illegality but it is still important because I am still interested in the Commission, I am still interested in Bishop Wilson's decisions and also his acknowledgment.

Fr Kevin: Canonically there is just a side question as to the status of that appeal - it is my belief that Rome wants us to solve things at the local level so we will investigate that side question.

But have you been advised by Rome?

Fr Kevin: I would have to go through the correspondence.

Because you see if Rome had advised that then Rome would advise me too because it has to because I am the main principal or the principal person involved so therefore I would have to be advised, Rome has decided that Bishop Wilson continue and I would accept that anyway, so I have no problems about that at all. And I am really happy that this has already proceeded anyway.

Fr Kevin: Was there anything else you wanted to say?

No, Father all to say is that, the only thing I would ask is what will proceed after this?

Fr Kevin: Theologians will write a report on the apparitions, canonists will write about the constitutions and we will try to answer the questions and that report will be given to the Bishop, what he does with it then is up to him.

What about interviewing witnesses or anything like this?

Fr Kevin: This is why my first question was that it is studying what you have published because we could not go into every question and, there are major issues that we are looking at and so it will be the major issues that we address and the others are side issues.

Fr John Woods: It could happen could it not, there might be need for further interviews?

Fr Kevin: Possibly yes.

But are you aware Father that whatever the Commission decides even what Bishop Wilson decides in the end if it is negative ... you have every right to appeal ... yes I would anyway.

Fr Kevin: And that is one of the things we must make clear and will be made clear in the published report is that your rights to have recourse to Rome are made clear.

Thank you for coming.

NOTE: There is a correction to be made regarding my final address: the year 1985 should read 1984 in both cases.

I put forward this amended and more comprehensive version of my answers to the questions of the interview of October 21, 2000, as a true record of my statement, and I make this solemn declaration, in accordance with the Oaths Act, 1900, and subject to the punishment by law provided for the making of any wilfully false statement in any such declaration.

Subscribed and declared at .................................................................................................

this .................................... day of .........................................................................

one thousand nine hundred and ..............

before me: ____________________________________

WILLIAM J. KAMM

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JUSTICE OF THE PEACE

J. C. J. DUFFY

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